Curse

Hobbs · Oct 14, 2010, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

I highly doubt Anet are allowed to show all the data people have submitted to anyone they want. They are certainly not allowed to disclose customer identification such as your name, credit card used to purchase, your address and so on.

Disclosing actual real-life personal details is somewhat different to them allowing access to what you've dedicated in your HoM. They haven't disclosed anything which could be used to link and account to a person at all, all it does is link some of the contents of an account to the name of the account, information which can, in some cases, be obtained just by seeing the character ingame. If you've ever had your Mini Panda out on display ingame isn't that consent for Arenanet to release the information on their servers? After all they've already shown your Panda to a whole load of people ingame.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

I can go on about this in more detail if necessary, but I doubt the general public here finds it very interesting. My main point is, as the OP, that Anet has dealth with the issue of privacy on this matter too lightly. But hey, this seems to be a current trend and most people seem not to mind...

Please do, assuming you have legal training or actual expertise. It's something which greatly interests me.

MithranArkanere · Oct 14, 2010, 06:04 PM // 18:04

I see no reason to hide this.
Hackers attacking those with obsidian armor?
That means you ADDED it to the HoM, no that you have it.
If they want to attack anyone with an obsidian armor, all they have to do is looking for someone that has it.

What any other reason could be?
Not being acepted into a clan for having an empty hall?
What kind of clan would that be?
And why would you want to lie to get into that clan?

There's just no reason to hide one's HoM.

Morphy · Oct 14, 2010, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Why people care about this kind of nonsense is beyond me.

Lanier · Oct 14, 2010, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

Unless I start seeing a widespread use of "LF 1 more, must be 45+/50 to join" in PuGing, I see nothing wrong with the calculator being public as it is now.

ugg, you know what the sad thing is. I would not at all be surprised if this happened.

Hobbs · Oct 14, 2010, 07:07 PM // 19:07

I check the HoM of everyone I group with but just out of curiosity and I wouldn't kick anyone for a low score. Lots of people in my guild have low scores because they aren't interested in Titles or Minis or Hero Armor but they're all good players for the most part.

RedStar · Oct 14, 2010, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Let's stop with all the paranoia.

I haven't seen a lot of thread (if any) where someone who had GWAMM/obsidian amor/chaos gloves had been hacked for that sole reason.

As for the minis, some people on this forum have no trouble showing them off and since it's been a few year, they have yet to be hacked.

So if you are someday hacked it's not because of your title or your possessions, it's because you didn't come up with a good password (don't know if anyone remembers but if your account is [email protected] then having for passsword "ryan123" isn't a good idea...) and you have a few viruses in your computer.

Del · Oct 14, 2010, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morphy

Why people care about this kind of nonsense is beyond me.

It's guru, if there's some tiny insignificant thing to whine about, you can be damn sure someone here will.

Sankt Hallvard · Oct 14, 2010, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Togira Ikonaka

Disclosing actual real-life personal details is somewhat different to them allowing access to what you've dedicated in your HoM. They haven't disclosed anything which could be used to link and account to a person at all, all it does is link some of the contents of an account to the name of the account, information which can, in some cases, be obtained just by seeing the character ingame. If you've ever had your Mini Panda out on display ingame isn't that consent for Arenanet to release the information on their servers? After all they've already shown your Panda to a whole load of people ingame.

Please do, assuming you have legal training or actual expertise. It's something which greatly interests me.

Well, I could quote myself again as you see the majority does not see this as much of an issue at all. It is REALLY hard to argue convincingly on the right to privacy and why it is an important right.

The main reason is that 'right to privacy' is a very vague or intangible concept. (I don't know if this makes sense, not an english native speaker.) While everyone will agree that it IS an important right, you will rarely find two people who agree on what it specifically entails and its limits.

As a starting point we can confirm that it is an important right and that any breach requires a reason. Not only that but the benefits of this reason must outweigh the downsides of violating the right to privacy. It is in most cases a conflict of interests. As such 'right to privacy' is a fluid concept and often hard to authoritatively ascertain. (the fact that it often involves international and interlegal law does not help ease the process)

Now for "our case" we will have to assume that at least some people might have an interest in keeping their HoM data private. While the majority might not feel this way we can probably agree that some people might, or more importantly that some people might come to this conclusion in the future. It is at this point unclear what(if any) consequences there will be to this information being publicly available. Things like HoM "discrimination" might come up, or there might be more serious issues - who knows. This is part of the reason it's hard to argue the case of right to privacy, it is often hard to predict possible development and potential problems. (Think of social media, Facebook etc, many people have put up very private information often without realising possible consequences. Many of them were hard to foresee and more will probably arise in the future.)

It is true that the data per se does not directly link to a specific individual, but also cases where the individual might be indirectly identified are included. I am also in doubt as to whether the in-game persona can be said to represent the individual or not. Like when you interact in game are people playing with "you" or are they playing with your avatar? I'm inclined to go with the first option. Regardless there is no doubt when it comes to applying privacy law(norwegian law in my case, which is similar to most of european law), the data ARE linked through your in-game nickname to an actual person.

I must admit I have not read "the small print" when I bought my account but apart from that I have not given my consent to make public information related to my account. You bring up as an example that someone who displays a title or a panda in game might be said to have given consent. Well yes, sort of - but even if you make some information public to a limited group of people it does not follow that you would want that information spread to a much wider group of people. For many privacy issues it is the "widespreadedness" that causes the most problems. (Relate to paparazzi photos of celebrities, it's when stuff ends up on the internet the problems arise.) Keep in mind that the entire HoM has been made public. The fact that consent is missing is probably the most serious part of this issue, for some it might seem as a flaw in integrity on Anet's part. Consent is the prime justification for publication, but it is not the only one. I will not comment on other justifications for publication in great detail but there are three types: consent, established in law or it is considered necessary for specific tasks. The key word being necessary.

As to the conflict of interest in this case we have some people voicing concern about having their account data made public weighed against (probably) an easy way of implementing the HoM calculator. The alternative would be (I guess) to require login and password. Do the benefits outweigh the downsides? Could there be other downsides or benefits I have not mentioned?

This is probably too much of a wall of text and people will flame me for being "paranoid". I'm not too fussed about the issue personally but I can see potential problems which is why I chimed in. And you asked me to get into more detail.

Hobbs · Oct 14, 2010, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

*snip*

Thanks for that, i'm an aspiring lawyer (I start university next year) and love reading this kind of stuff.

Duranin · Oct 15, 2010, 03:36 AM // 03:36

/signed

...yes, titles are there for showing off, but you should still be able to control what other people see. Especially since this calculator is intended to let you know what bonuses you get in GW2 (if you want to show off, then show off with your Champion of the Gods title once GW2 goes live!) -- people are instead using it to evaluate someone's progress in the CURRENT GW1 ... like WoW players checking Achievement points before inviting to a raid/guild ...If you play a very specific part of GW, such as farming DoA or only PvP (or think Vabbi and Destroyer weapons are ugly like me)... your HoM points will be very low. It is unfair for example, for someone to kick you from a UW group because you have low HoM points -- so what if you don't have 50 minipets? How does that reflect your skill and experience in UW runs?

MalibuBarbie · Oct 15, 2010, 07:13 AM // 07:13

Tbh, I barely have done UW at all and I started off at 45/50...and so you are gonna let me in your Speed Clear because I apparently look good on a calculator. :P I was somewhat annoyed with the calculator being public at first because of all the whispers of comparisons that I received in-game. " ZOMG I am Higher than YOU" ....but .....it kinda got funny after a while, PLUS it was good to see my friend's list and my guild with so many people online( To make those comparisons -_-)

Sarevok Thordin · Oct 15, 2010, 07:30 AM // 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Someone on GW2G said that they got kicked out of a UWSC PUG because he was 24/50, but I haven't seen any other examples.

......people really stop at NOTHING to rate people do they?

KiLLi4N · Oct 15, 2010, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Darkblight

/no
Look at your HoM
now back to mine,
now back at your HoM,
now back to mine,
sadly it is not like mine,
but if he stopped being so sluggish 7/50
it could be like mine.
look down, back up.
where are you?
you are in RA,.
whats that in your hand,
back at me, I have it,
its an Tormented Shield with an Oppressor spear ,
now look again, the shield is now diamond.
everything is possible when your HoM is filled with all kinds of things.
im in Kamadan"

god this never gets old xD

AWESOME

.

Well, I don't mind people seeing my 30/50 (at the moment), a similar thing (with whole inventory, build and skills for everyone to see) is in WoW and I think it is a rather cool thing, but I also understand that some people do mind and would like to retain their privacy.

Smarty · Oct 15, 2010, 08:16 AM // 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard

As to the conflict of interest in this case we have some people voicing concern about having their account data made public weighed against (probably) an easy way of implementing the HoM calculator. The alternative would be (I guess) to require login and password. Do the benefits outweigh the downsides? Could there be other downsides or benefits I have not mentioned?

That's something I think they've done right with the HoM calculator site. As it stands, all you have to do is type in a character name, there's no requirement to type in account details. That means there's one less possible security breach.

As the chappie in the HoM has the option to click him to take you to the HoM calculator, if there's going to be a privacy option added I'd like to see it be done by talking to him in game. (I'm not holding my breath on this one, just making the suggestion in case anyone from ANet's listening and taking it seriously.)

Terrible Surgeon · Oct 15, 2010, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Its just nice to know that anet is actually doing something to calculate the HoM into GW2..i take the 00/50 as a good sign that it will make a difference in GW2 as to what you did in GW. But stalking your HoM...the only reason you wouldn;t want anyone seeing your HoM is bc its empty and you feel like a noob. Other than that what harm does it do?

/notsigned

Swahnee · Oct 15, 2010, 09:25 AM // 09:25

It could even be a marketing strategy...you know, some people could be boosted to work harder for their HoM after realizing that they have less points than their friends. Some people may even be tempted to come back to GW not to be/feel inferior to their friends. If the HoM information were private, instead, it would be easier to say "who cares", and stay far from GW, expecially if someone is not sure whether to buy or not GW2.

This assuming that it's a marketing strategy to have more people being actively involved in GW, for advertising purposes.

Elephantaliste · Oct 17, 2010, 07:32 PM // 19:32

/signed, it is privacy invasion

It should be private by default and shareable at will.
Noone should be forced to reveal his in-game rewards to world wide web... neither 0/50 or 50/50.

Elephantaliste · Oct 17, 2010, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Togira Ikonaka

You are 100% wrong. You don't own anything on your character in Guild Wars. It is all the property of Arenanet and they're allowed to show their stuff to whoever they want.

I think the reason that you can't see what minis someone has dedicated it to avoid those accounts with Kanaxais etc. being targeted. So many people have Obsidian/Chaos Gloves now it'd be much easy to get the names in game than from the HoM app.

We don't own your telephone number, you pay for it, you can't sell it.

What about a website showing numbers of calls you call and receive...

wilebill · Oct 17, 2010, 08:45 PM // 20:45

It is an invasion of privacy. WoW Armory is likewise an invasion of privacy. I expect better from ArenaNet and hope we get it.

RedStar · Oct 17, 2010, 10:31 PM // 22:31

I think your guys a kind of exaggerating the "right of privacy".

You guys would be happier if it required you to put your account name + password + character name on an internet browser ? I'd be a little more paranoid if that was the case.

Really, if people get discriminated because of it they should be kind of happy. At least they won't lose time and money on a team that will most likely fail (just like joining a "EXP GLF EXP players, no noob" or a "Show stone" group....)